DIGITAL CAMERA FRAUD
The purpose of this site is to
detail the history and methods
used by Patrick Clouet (a.k.a.
"Real Life") to defraud me of $1340 Canadian.
On July 24th, I sent Patrick Clouet a money order for $1340 CND. As of September 24th, I have neither the E-10 digital camera or my money back. Patrick lives in Quebec, Canada, while I live in Alberta, Canada. I chose to buy the camera off of him because I thought I'd save money not having to pay a customs tax for it to come across the border. Little did I know this would turn into a 2 month battle to get my money back. At first I thought he was simply an amateur when it came to selling things online and was very patient with him. He had two successful auctions on Bargain and Haggle.com, so I thought he was a reputable person to deal with. I was wrong, thus began this tale.
JAN 29, 2003 UPDATE:
I had basically given up hope of getting any of
my money back, since my last update, I've received two cheques from the
collections agency! The first was for $267.17 CND, and this current one is
for $284.98. Of the original $840 owed,
Oligny &
Thibodeau will take $210 as their cut, but I'll get $630 back. I talked
with them today since all the paperwork they sent me was in French (which I
can't read), and it seems Patrick has given then the final cheque, so once
it clears on their end, I'll receive the final payment. Amazing! I should
have gone the collections agency route first - if you happen to get ripped
off by Patrick or anyone else in the province of Quebec, I strongly
recommend you contact
Oligny &
Thibodeau at 1-450-348-1519. SEPT 17, 2002 UPDATE: Believe it or not, I still haven't given up on getting my money back. I've heard from a fellow in Quebec who actually worked with Patrick Clouet at one point. He says that Patrick was fired for defrauding the company of $20,000. If Patrick is capable of that level of fraud, I'm not sure I'll ever see my money, but I received a tip from someone on a collections agency in Quebec. They are called Oligny & Thibodeau, and while their cut of 25% is a little steep, I only pay if they are successful. I figured I have nothing to lose, so now Patrick has a collections agency on his case - I truly hope they make life difficult for him. MAR 5, 2002 UPDATE: I'm getting a lot of email about this site from visitors, so I thought I'd answer a few of the questions I keep getting: "Why don't you go see Patrick in Quebec and get your money back?" Quebec is on the other side of Canada, roughly 2000 miles away from me - I'd spend more on a plane ticket than he owes me. "Why don't you contact Canada Post - isn't it mail fraud?" I tried that, but Canada post says it's not mail fraud - and I could find no one at the post office able to even give me a description of what would QUALIFY as mail fraud.
"Why don't you contact the police - isn't it criminal fraud?" "Why don't you sue
him?"
|
Here's a chronology of events:
I've waited nearly SIX months for Patrick to make good on his promises and refund my money, but he hasn't done so. I'm therefore creating this web site to expose his acts and hope that:
Here's a copy of the money order I sent him:
What you can do to help:
But wait, there's more...
I was searching Bargain and Haggle in early August 2001, and guess what I found? Another E-10 up for bid by none other than Patrick Clouet (who goes by "Real Life" as his handle). I signed up under a new account name and began asking him questions about the camera, it's serial number, etc. Three days later he pulled the camera listing.
Below is a chronology of email
from newest to oldest -
scroll to the bottom and read from the top up
I've left Patrick's spelling and
grammar intact - I haven't altered any of the messages.
You can download the original email (up until Sept. 24th thread in text, HTML,
or Outlook MSG format)
From: Patrick
Clouet [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 1:57 PM
To: Jason Dunn
Subject: Re: !
If you try to afraid me, it does'nt work!
From: Jason Dunn
To: 'Patrick Clouet'
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 11:03 PM
Subject: RE: !
Just pointing out that someone just like you is in court for doing the same
thing that you did. Does jail time sound appealing?
From: Patrick Clouet
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 9:01 PM
To: Jason Dunn
Subject: Re: !
So?
From: Jason Dunn
To: 'Patrick Clouet'
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 10:53 PM
Subject: !
http://www.thestar.ca/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1011049490939&call_page=TS_Ontario&call_pageid=968256289824&call_pagepath=News/Ontario&col=968342212737
From: Patrick
Clouet [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 6:54 PM
To: Jason Dunn
Subject: Re: Hello again...
i know
From: "Jason Dunn" <jason@>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 6:29 PM
Subject: Hello again...
You should probably check the site again Patrick:
http://www.jasonsego.com/fraud/
From:
Real_Life [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: November 20, 2001 12:13 PM
To: jason@
Subject: Re: bounced
You can expect the balance in 1 week
From: Jason Dunn
To: Real_Life
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 5:48 PM
Subject: RE: bounced
I received the money order last week and cashed it - thank you. When can I
expect the other $840 CND?
From: Real_Life [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: November 4, 2001 12:55 PM
To: jason@
Subject: Re: bounced
i know it will be hard for you to believe me at this time, but i have send you a
money order of 500$ today. It was sent by regular post so you will probably have
it on thuesday or friday.
From: Jason Dunn [mailto:jason@]
Sent: October 26, 2001 10:09 PM
To: Real_Life
Subject: RE: bounced
So it's now Friday night and I haven't received anything from you. You said you'd send a money order - you obviously didn't. Are we back to where we started, with you lying about repaying me?
From: Jason Dunn [mailto:jason@]
Sent: October 23, 2001 4:38 AM
To: Real_Life
Subject: RE: bounced
Like I've said before Patrick, I'll believe it when I see it. I thought you were sincere with the two cheques, but once again I have no money from you and you're still making promises.
From: Real_Life [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: October 20, 2001 9:55 PM
To: jason@
Subject: bounced
Hi Jason;
First, i was not scared last thursday when you called me.
Second, i am in the obligation to close my bank account because you have put my check on your site so all the peoples can have the access to my bank number. So the second check will also bounce For this reason : "Account closed". You will received the first money order monday or thuesday....i will send you another monday. The second money order will include 10 $ for you fees for the first bounced check. You will have no 10$ for the second because YOU have put my bank account number on the internet.
From: Jason Dunn [mailto:jason@]
Sent: October 8, 2001 12:38 PM
To: Real_Life
Subject: RE: You win!
I've cashed your first cheque, but I won't know if it bounces until sometime later this week. I hope that it clears.
From: Real_Life [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: September 26, 2001 5:04 PM
To: jason@
Subject: Re: You win!
Ok Jason, Thanks to tell me the news.
From: Jason Dunn
To: Real_Life
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 6:58 PM
Subject: RE: You win!
I received your two post-dated cheques today - thank you. I've updated the web site to indicate that you've given me the cheques, but it remains to be seen if they'll cash without difficulty. You'll hear from me again on the 5th and 19th.
From: Real_Life [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: September 24, 2001 9:46 AM
To: jason@
Subject: Re: You win!
Your express post tracking # is : 75 135 199 xxx
From: Real_Life [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: September 24, 2001 8:47 AM
To: jason@
Subject: Re: You win!
Your refund as been sent this morning in 2 instalments of 670.00$. (670*2=1340). My email adress will change soon so i will not seen all of the next email you will send to me and also the people who see your site.
From: Real_Life [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: September 23, 2001 8:04 PM
To: jason@
Subject: Re: You win!
You want to know what proof? I dont know the english terms, but the injunction will say: Atteinte à la réputation.
From: Real_Life [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: September 23, 2001 7:55 PM
To: jason@
Subject: Re: You win!
If its that what you want, i will send you the injunction tomorrow, you will probably have it wendsday or thursday.
From: Jason Dunn [mailto:jason@]
Sent: September 24, 2001 7:46 PM
To: Real_Life
Subject: RE: You win!
On what grounds? Slander? Slander is accusation without proof - I have plenty of proof that you defrauded me of $1340 CND, as the site indicates. Go ahead, send your injunctions, I'll send mine, and you'll end up spending far more than $1340 to shut the site down. You want to end this gracefully? Give me back the money you took from me, not one cent less, and this will all end. You've had the ability to end this for two months Patrick, but you've refused to do so. And now you reap the rewards of your actions...
From: Real_Life [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: September 23, 2001 7:22 PM
To: jason@
Subject: Re: You win!
I have talked with my Counsel. If your site is not closed on thuesday, september 25 at 5:00PM eastern time, you will received an injunction to close it.
From: Real_Life [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: September 23, 2001 3:50 PM
To: jason@
Subject: Re: You win!
Jason, I know that its hard for you to believe that i will refund your money, but maybe you will change your ides when the first check will arrive.
I have see your site. You have forget to mentionned that my horrible grammatic is du that i speak french!
From: Jason Dunn [mailto:jason@]
Sent: September 24, 2001 3:42 PM
To: Real_Life
Subject: RE: You win!
Patrick, you've lied about paying me THREE TIMES. Why should I believe you now? I'm proceeding as planned, and will leave this web site up for as long as it takes to get 100% of my money refunded. It's that simple. You have my address if you want to send me my refund.
From: Real_Life [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: September 23, 2001 3:41 PM
To: jason@
Subject: Re: You win!
You encourage the people to send me an email to encourage me to refund you but you dont want that i refund you in two versements?
Forget the idle promises Patrick - I've asked my lawyer to begin proceedings against you, and he'll be sending you a letter soon describing things. Today I'm emailing your ISP about your fraudulent activities and filing a complain with Bargain and Haggle. I'm also contacting the Calgary police to ask about pressing criminal charges against you.
From: Real_Life [[email protected]]
Sent: September 23, 2001 9:36 AM
To: jason@
Subject: Re: You win!
The only thing that i can do is to send your money in 2 versements.
From: Jason Dunn
To: Patrick Clouet
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2001 3:45 PM
Subject: RE: You win!
Patrick, in a few days you're going to sorely regret not giving me my refund. I've given you every opportunity to back out of this gracefully, but you haven't refunded my money. And so it begins...
From: Patrick Clouet [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: September 18, 2001 9:49 AM
To: jason@
Subject: Re: You win!
Your refund as been re-sent to yoy on last friday
From: Jason Dunn
To: Patrick Clouet
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 12:21 AM
Subject: RE: You win!
Patrick, I continue to wait for you to refund my money. Your actions are rapidly becoming criminal - it's called FRAUD.
You have until Friday, September 7th, 2001 to refund my money.
From: Patrick Clouet [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: August 17, 2001 11:00 AM
To: jason@
Subject: Re: You win!
I Understand you. The package is not her but the mail will be here in about two hours...I hope it will be here!
I will send you another certified check(In case the same thing arrive) and send it to you today. Can you please RE-CONFIRM YOUR ADRESS please?
From: Jason Dunn
To: Patrick Clouet
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 10:29 AM
Subject: RE: You win!
Did the package come back to you because you used the incorrect address? I can't get any confirmation of where it actually is. I was told by Canada Post that if the address is incorrect, it will be returned to the sender.
Yes, if you want to cancel it and re-issue me a new certified cheque or money order, sent to the correct address, I would appreciate that.
My only desire is for this to end so I can go purchase the E-10 from someone else - I'm not rich enough to buy two of them.
From: Patrick Clouet
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: August 16, 2001 2:34 PM
To: jason@
Subject: Re: You win!
It was a certified check
From: Jason Dunn
To: Patrick Clouet
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 3:34 PM
Subject: RE: You win!
That still doesn't explain why it never got here - was it returned to you? You're so cryptic in your messages - you're saying you BLOCKED the payment, or you WILL BLOCK the payment? If it was a money order, you can't block it - or else I would have done so weeks ago to the money order I sent you (which you've now cashed).
How many weeks will you make me wait for my money?
From: Patrick Clouet
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: August 16, 2001 8:31 AM
To: jason@
Subject: Re: You win!
Hi Jason. I proposed you that i blocked the last payment and send another.please let me know.
From: Jason Dunn
To: Patrick Clouet
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 8:31 PM
Subject: RE: You win!
Patrick, I'd like to believe you - I would. I'm generally a trusting person (which is why I sent you the money order, no questions asked), but when I enter the number in, I get the following info:
Item Number Entered: pk218802498
If your item was sent recently, that status may not have been input yet. Please allow one business day and try again.
I've tried it with and without the PK, and I've called Canada Post and they tell me that number isn't valid. Did the fax smudge the number? Is that the correct number - can you verify?
And if the money was sent, where on earth is it? That was five business days ago - it should have been here by now.
From: Patrick Clouet
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: August 15, 2001 6:13 PM
To: jason@
Subject: Re: You win!
The link is not working. And for sure and i have the proof, your money as been sent.
From: Jason Dunn
To: Patrick Clouet
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 7:36 PM
Subject: RE: You win!
Not that I'm surprised, but the Xpresspost package hasn't arrived, and surprise surprise, the tracking number on the fax you sent me isn't a valid one (this appears to be your MO).
What I'm curious about is how you got it stamped at the post office and made it look official? I noticed you got the address wrong too - you left off the #104. It should have still arrived here however.
Take a look at this web page and tell me if you really want to keep my money:
http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/Laws/Canada/criminal_laws.htm
If I haven't received my money back by Friday, I'm going to proceed with legal action against you. It's over $1000, we're both in Canada, and I'm not giving up on this.
This is your final warning.
From: Patrick Clouet
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: August 8, 2001 10:13 AM
To: jason@
Subject: Re: You win!
Hi Jason, i will post and fax the refund today. sorry but i was unable to send it before that. send me your adress please.
From: Jason Dunn
To: Patrick Clouet
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 7:32 PM
Subject: RE: You win!
403-720-36xx
thanks
From: Patrick Clouet
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: August 5, 2001 5:24 PM
To: jason@
Subject: Re: You win!
If you have a fax #, i can send you the proof of delivery and a photocopy of your money order.
From: Jason Dunn
To: Patrick Clouet
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 7:16 PM
Subject: RE: You win!
Thank you. I'll expect it by Tuesday or Wednesday.
From: Patrick Clouet [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: August 5, 2001 1:42 PM
To: jason@
Subject: Re: You win!
I will send you the complete refund on monday.
From: Jason Dunn
To: Patrick Clouet
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 7:43 PM
Subject: RE: You win!
Patrick,
Please advise whether or not I need to take legal action to get my money back. It's your call - we can do this the easy way, or the hard way.
From: Patrick Clouet
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: August 1, 2001 4:16 PM
To: jason@
Subject: Re: You win!
Hi Jason. We must offer our apologies: the truth is that the camera as never been shipped du the a defect item. so we propose you 2 things:
1: You block the check
Or
2: We send you the refund +25$ for the
incovenience.
From: Jason Dunn
To: Patrick Clouet
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 6:02 PM
Subject: RE: You win!
What is the tracking number? I'm not confident I'm going to see the camera Patrick - you have yet to give me a valid tracking number.
PLEASE give me a valid tracking number so I can verify the camera is really in Calgary!
From: Patrick Clouet
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: July 31, 2001 3:33 PM
To: jason@
Subject: Re: You win!
Hi Jason, sorry for the incovenience....This my girlfriend...she received it and dont says to
me....i just called canada post you will have your camera tommorrow.
From: Jason Dunn
To: Patrick Clouet
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 1:05 AM
Subject: RE: You win!
No, i still not received your payment. This is very strange because the Canada post web site says that it was delivered. Maybe it was not at the right
adress. Can you please try to track it with Canada post?
[Jason Dunn] This is a little odd. Yes, the web site says it was successfully delivered. Unless I'm mistaken, they can't deliver this unless someone signs for it. You didn't receive it on the 26th of July? Who did?
I guess I'll call tomorrow and see what I can find out, but I've done what I was supposed to do: mail you the money order via
Xpresspost. Do you have a fax number? I can fax you the copy of the money order if that would help.
July 26, 2001 AM
BEAUPORT
PQ
The item has been successfully delivered to the customer.
I hope that all will be ok as soon as possible!
From: Jason Dunn
To: Patrick Clouet
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 2:05 PM
Subject: RE: You win!
Did you receive the money order yet? I would hope so by now. :-)
The tracking number you've given me below continues to come up as invalid - is it the correct one?
From: Patrick Clouet
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: July 27, 2001 9:40 AM
To: jason@
Subject: Re: You win!
Hi Jason, sorry for the delay but my internet connection crashed. Here is your tracking #. maybe you will have it tomorrow.i still not received your payment.
75218800983
From: Jason Dunn
To: Patrick Clouet
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 7:44 PM
Subject: RE: You win!
Patrick,
I was hoping for an email from you by now with a tracking number for the shipment of the camera. You had indicated you'd cross-ship the camera. Please response ASAP. Thanks!
From: Patrick Clouet
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: July 24, 2001 9:08 AM
To: jason@
Subject: Re: You win!
yes
From: Jason Dunn
To: Patrick Clouet
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 2:47 AM
Subject: RE: You win!
A tracking number - that's if I mail the cheque via registered mail with Canada Post?
From: Patrick Clouet
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: July 23, 2001 3:22 PM
To: jason@
Subject: Re: You win!
Hi Jason, if you are able to send us a tracking #, we can post your camera right after the receipt of it.
From: Jason Dunn
To: Patrick Clouet
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 5:23 PM
Subject: RE: You win!
Ok, sounds good.
Could I ask what the history of this camera is? It says that it's unopened (new) - how long ago was it purchased?
-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Clouet [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: July 22, 2001 2:58 PM
To: jason@
Subject: You win!
Final price is 850.00$US. The shipping charges are 20.00 so the price with shipping charges is 870.00$US.If you send funds in Canadians dollars, that will be 1340$CA
You can pay us by money order only.
Thanks
Action: OFFER ACCEPTED!
Item: #117411 - Olympus E10 Digital SLR Camera -NEW-
Price: $850.00
User: reallife
Comments: No comment entered
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Seller Information-
e-mail: [email protected]
Patrick Clouet
133 rue de l'Aude
Beauport, QC G1B2M3
CA
Buyer Information-
e-mail: jason@
Jason Dunn
#104, 78 Prestwick Gardens SE
Calgary, AB T2Z3V2
CA
http://www.bargainandhaggle.com